I Need Your Help
May 4th, 2006 | by Scott |So, I am preparing a summer series on dealing with issues that confront us today as Christians. The idea is to redeem spiritual matters from the myopia of a political view, to look at things as a Christian first before we bring country or party into it.
Some of the issues that we will be dealing with are:
- Stem Cell Research
- Just War
- Torture
- Homosexuality
- America and Christianity
- Osteenism
- The Environment
What do you think of these issues? What are your thoughts? What would you like to see added to this list? Am I crazy? (Actually, you don’t have to answer that one.)
I really covet your feedback here.
41 Responses to “I Need Your Help”
By Greg on May 4, 2006 | Reply
Have you seen that cartoon of the preacher, standing in the pulpit, and outside you can see his family packing up the car with their bags and belongings? The speech bubble beside the preacher’s mouth reads something like “There’s a few things I’ve been meaning to say…”
That’s what I thought of when I read your list. Once again I am amazed, and encouraged, that a series like this is possible in a church. Going in I know that not everyone will be on the same page (some Christians, inexplicably, will probably actually be in favor of torture, for instance), but that you are given the ability to address these issues speaks volumes about your congregation and its leadership.
If I could add an item, it would probably be something to do with wealth, how we spend it, etc., viewed from a Christian perspective. This might fall under Osteenism, or American and Christianity, but I would seriously like to see a lesson series, or a discussion, focused on whether Christians can ethically or morally own a BMW or a Mercedes or a million-dollar home.
By Scott on May 4, 2006 | Reply
I would love to get my hands on that cartoon. When I suggested this to my elders they trusted that I would handle it right. I give them credit for bravery. And our congregation is looking forward to that. They are predominately older but they are eagerly anticipating going deeper in their understanding. I think it gives them some comfort to know that I won’t be needlessly provocative, but the study will be provocative none-the-less.
Honestly, if we weren’t going through a study of the Minor Prophets right now, I don’t think it would be possible. But week after week, we are able to reinforce that American is not the new Israel, that there is nothing that ticks God off more than oppressing or failing to love His people.
That’s a great suggestion Greg. I had intended to put that under Osteenism, since he is such a poster boy for that idea. I may just have to spin that into a two-parter.
By Greg on May 4, 2006 | Reply
I would do it as a two-parter….
When I think Osteenism I think “God wants me to be rich” and there is a warped understanding of blessing at work there.
I think we can address our material wealth and our use thereof much more responsibly than as a reaction against one false prophet.
By Scott on May 4, 2006 | Reply
That’s a great point. It would set up nicely within the series.
By John on May 4, 2006 | Reply
This looks like it could be a real challenging set of topics both as a preacher and one listening to it. When I think Osteenism and some of the other modern takes on Chistianity that we see today in America I think of the phrase “feel good” or “Christianity lite”. They play on the whole me first culture we have and avoid any of the tough messages in the bible of sacrifice and possible suffering for our beliefs.
As for some of the other topics the enviroment is all about stewardship. Right back to the begining God gave Adam the charge of the earth and it’s care. That’s never changed so we are responsible for the earth.
On the homosexuality my feeling is that Jesus would be right there with the homosexuals showing them love while at the sametime challenging them to change their lives.
Good luck on the series.
By radec on May 4, 2006 | Reply
The one that got my attention when first reading the list is osteenism. Funny how that is the most frequent one mentioned in the comments thus far.
America and Christianity…can I ask what you were thinking here? Is it along the lines that America is supposedly a “Christian nation” or something completely different. Just curious.
Good List.
By Scott on May 4, 2006 | Reply
Thanks, John, Any suggestions on subjects you would add?
Radec, I don’t believe that American is a Christian nation. I believe that the perpetuation of America’s interests runs counter to Kingdom living. What I would look at is the pervasive myth that America is God’s blessed New Israel.
By Hero on May 4, 2006 | Reply
One of the first topics that you really shined a light on here on your blog that I fell in love with was the need to be active beyond our own borders. You started with Darfur, I think, and have acknowledged several times that America is so frequently self-focused and forgetful of how good we really have it.
Right now people are engaged and enraged that we’re depending on other countries for some of our resources. I say there are countries around the world that desperately need our resources in return yet we turn the cheek.
Thinking and loving globally?
Am I making ANY sense here? LOL
By Phil Wilson on May 4, 2006 | Reply
Do abortion, but not simply from the idea of keeping babies from being killed, but what is the responsibility of the Christian after those children are born.
By Scott on May 4, 2006 | Reply
Hero, you make perfect sense. We Christians do have an obligation to view life without the constraints of physical borders. The Tsunami was every bit as much of a need to respond to as a hurricane. While we are freaking out the faint possibility of Bird Flu, the grisly cost of AIDS in Africa is real. Both are our problems.
Phil, I’ve thought about doing a consistent ethic of human life class. I love Lee Camp’s thoughts on that in Mere Discipleship. I’d love to hear more of your thoughts on this topic. How would you approach it.
By Phil Wilson on May 4, 2006 | Reply
I guess my thought is that if Christians are so fired up about preventing the deaths of unwanted babies, maybe we should volunteer to take those babies in. I think the idea of the consistent ethic of human life is a great way to go at it and will open up all kinds of doors (and cans of worms)
By John on May 4, 2006 | Reply
I like the line of thought with the abortion and the follow up of taking in the unwanted babies. Of course I’m a bit biased since we adopted our daughter. Then of course since we are talking about the value of life there is the whole other end of the debate and the death penalty. It’s always troubled me that so many who are pro-life are also very pro-death penalty. There seems to be a large amount of hypocrisy there and it’s an issue I struggle with and really am not sure of what is the right balance.
By Scott on May 4, 2006 | Reply
John, that’s what me and Phil are talking about with the consistent ethic of human life–pro-life in all instances, being consistent that all life is sacred and valuable.
I am going to teach that one, Phil.
Wish me luck.
By Jason Bybee on May 4, 2006 | Reply
I’m with Hero. Some kind of Christian activism issue is the only thing I’d add. Ambitious stuff, dude. I’d love to see your material when you’re through, particularly re: America & Christianity. As far as I can tell, America bears little semblance to a Christian nation. It’s my understanding that the only Christian nation is the church.
By Phil Wilson on May 4, 2006 | Reply
The tough thing about teaching that (and really any of it) and bringing it up is the next question…
“What have I done about it?”
By Scott on May 4, 2006 | Reply
Jason and Phil, this is where the rubber meets the road, so to speak, for me. I’ve arrived at this place in my life. Now, to paraphrase Phil, what do I do? How do I connect this to congregational life? How do I tie this into the context of spiritual community. My journey has not been a political one, but spiritual. So, spiritually, how do we deal with these issues? What is the church to look like and how do I be faithful with where God has brought me. I’ll feel that I am on precarious, though blessed, ground.
What other topics are there: What about women, justice, etc. Any ideas? I’m eating up this discussion.
By Phil Wilson on May 4, 2006 | Reply
Here are some more…
In the America and Christianity, talk about how the self made individuality that America was built on is seemingly in opposition to the servant nature and dependency on each other that the early church tried to live out.
Tell the story of the Good Samaritan, but make a Muslim the good guy of the story.
What happens when church becomes a power/principality in the lives of people? What do we do when church hinders discipleship rather than promotes it?
By R-Liz (Ruthie) on May 4, 2006 | Reply
I like the idea of the abortion issue being followed forward with the question of: What do we do with the babies once they’re born? My husband and I watched a documentary on the last abortion clinic in Mississippi, and the gal running it said that crisis pregnancy centers are all about keeping the baby alive while in the womb– but once the baby’s born, they have no investment. They may give the mom a free stroller and some diapers, but what good is that in the whole scheme of things? Folks who are politically pro-life are many times also politically against giving much aid to the poor, which is a category many single moms fit into. We’re not consistent.
But I also think the abortion issue can be followed backwards as well– who are the gals having abortions, and why is that happening? Is there a link among life at home, or something else? It’s a tough life out there for young women, and many have a hard time navigating themselves through. How can we be there to help them and grow them into being complete people (and prevent unwanted pregnancy from occurring in the first place)? What’s the church’s investment?
I’ve also wondered about having some kind of ethics seminar on the types of birth control available, and how they work. For instance, many women take hormonal birth control, but I’ve heard from some parties that a birth control with just progesterone only prevents implantation (meaning a fertilized egg would be sluffed off in menstruation), whereas one with progesterone and estrogen prevents ovulation, so an egg is never fertilized. I’ve also heard from a co-worker who’s a gynecologist that the morning after pill prevents ovulation– but I’ve heard from others that it just prevents implantation. What’s the real scoop? Folks like Dobson have done a lot to try to help families once the family is started, but what about those who are trying to “plan” their families? What are the best and most ethical means to use?
By Scott on May 4, 2006 | Reply
Phil, another great one. I’ve done classes on how the self-esteem movement is contrary to the gospel. Talk about a hard pill to swallow. I like the Good Samaritan/Muslim angle.
Ruthie, wow. “Folks who are politically pro-life are many times also politically against giving much aid to the poor, which is a category many single moms fit into. We’re not consistent.”
Tremendous thought. We have no investment in the church other than criticizing the baby-killers, it seems.
Do you have thoughts on the birth control idea?
By Greg on May 4, 2006 | Reply
Bonus points if you can work in the words “wishy-washy, vanilla evangelicalism” into any of your sermons!
By scott on May 4, 2006 | Reply
Greg, done. It will be toward the end of my sermon on Sunday. Wait for the podcast Sunday afternoon.
By Pat on May 4, 2006 | Reply
If you really want to stir it up, you might consider something having to do with parenting. How parents are the responsible parties for their children’s spiritual development. Sunday school is not. How parenting is an active endeavor, it doesn’t just happen. Using the principles from “Grace-Based Parenting” and the thought that we shouldn’t be trying to fit kids into our schedules. Their view of God and their future development of Christian thought depends so much on how they were parented. Dads in particular are vital.
But, I’m a little old-fashioned on that subject.
By contratimes on May 4, 2006 | Reply
Scott,
How about ecumenism? or Islam? or poverty and wealth, ie. is it OK to be rich?
For the first, how about the context of Paul’s remarks, namely, that divisions in the Church are God’s will (I Corinthians 11) so that we all may see where God’s favor lies?
For the second, how do we as Christians understand Islam in the context of Church history and even eschatology? Is Mohammad the false prophet described in Revelation? Is Islam a religion of peace? Are Allah and YHWH really the same gods? Is there a way of bridge-building between the two? How?
For the third, how about the context of the rich young ruler? He went away sad, after all, but it is clear that he followed Christ’s orders: he indeed WENT. Did he sell his stuff only to later join the Lord (the text is silent)? Why did the disciples freak out when Jesus let the man go away “sad”? Is there any room for wealthy Christians in the kingdom or ministry? Is wealth always bad? What does it mean that there was gold in the manger? Was Jesus’ life subsidized? Was he really poor? Is poverty not a good thing? Why fight it?
I think the Intelligent Design/Evolution debate is hugely important, primarily for this reason: It is not a debate about science, it is a debate about the PHILOSOPHY of science. It is about epistemology and ontology; about what is and how we know it. There is a way to think critically as a Christian about these things.
But perhaps the most important thing is to instill in your charges that it is not only OK, it is essential, that Christians THINK about things, THINK in the most intelligent ways possible. Jesus tells us NOT to hide our light under a bushel. In other words, he tells us to be BRILLIANT. Too many Christians do not believe that they can be brilliant; or that they even should be. How did this happen? Why do so many Christians––like the doubting disciples trying to cast out devils––why do so many Christians doubt that they have POWER, the power of the resurrection which is like the working “of his mighty strength”? We are, after all, allegedly sitting in Christ at the right hand of the Father; we have been chosen before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless and, yes, brilliant!
Your whole summer could be filled with that one issue alone. Or is this so much bunk?
There is a LOT to wonder about. I am not at all sure that I’ve pointed you in any helpful directions.
Peace.
Gnade
By Scott on May 4, 2006 | Reply
Pat, I really want to do a series on Grace-Based. I’m hoping I can get Tracy to read it sometime before the kids grow up so we can be on the same page. Maybe if you told her it was a good book it would help.
Bill, I’m definitely doing the prosperity thing. I would like to have a discussion on the Intelligent Design debate. I feel a little overwhelmed with bringing that into it.
We had a great discussion the other night about the need to question and work through issues. My congregation has a passion to dig deeper.
You have definitely given me food for thought.
Thanks.
By George Freeman on May 4, 2006 | Reply
Scott, You know that I tend to be a bit of a free thinker and share a kindred alliance with you in that regard. I will admit that your recent posts are making me increasingly uncomfortable.
I am not uncomfortable with your process or your thoughts but with your almost overwhelming need to share your developing theology and political leanings on the Internet before you have reached defendable conclusions. In private I will be glad to show you some debate points that can cause you great harm.
We all are evolving and questioning our positions as it relates to our spirituality. I am glad you are in that growth mode. I just wish you would be a bit more selective in sharing your thoughts on your blog.
Several comments to your most recent posts strike me curious and almost as though folks are involved in egging you on. Be careful.
You are a person thata serves as a minister, pastor, spiritual leader. I suggest you turn your missives more toward encouragement for the people who love and cherish you as opposed to this almost death wish sharing of your spiritual evolution. I am sure that a blog is not the place to be sharing the horns of your spiritual growth.
I am greatly concerned about some of your recent posts.
Not because I disagree but because I have seen feeding frenzies before.
Rein it in a bit bro. Where you are going is only going to end up in a gigantic bite out of your ass. And for the people encouraging you? What do thaey stand to lose?
Just my very unsolicited advice.
By Scott on May 4, 2006 | Reply
George, I appreciate your candor and your willingness to share your wisdom.
I have no choice but to share my “developing theology and political leanings…before I reach defendable conclusions” because I am a seeker and I hope I never reach the point where I have it all “concluded.”
I feel that what I am writing is serving to be great encouragments to people. I may be wrong but I will not be a minister who claims to have it all figured out.
I share my spiritual evolution because that is what I feel called to do. If it is a death wish, so be it. I can think of no better way to go out than through seeking Christ.
Again, the story of my journey took many political leanings because I viewed my faith through a political lens for so long. But I feel that I am closer to Jesus than I have ever been and would be unfaithful not to share it.
It’s my testimony. Jesus promised a life of risk. I live my life in the context of church and ministry. I must be open, honest and candid. Too many people have been turned off and left the church by ministers who were not real. May no one ever lodge the criticism that I was not real and truthful.
I am flawed, I am undone. I am a sinner.
If my message draws one soul closer to Jesus, even in the public context of the internet, I count it all gain.
Thanks,
your brother.
By Hero on May 4, 2006 | Reply
Scott -
What a brother you’ve got there! And, what a relationship you obviously share that he feels safe enough to say those things to you and protective enough to want to keep you from harm but you are also comfortable enough to say: It’s ok bro, I’m good.
Most importantly, bravo to you for continuing to be real, continuing to be be honest, continuing to try and reach others too.
I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, I’ve been struggling for a long time with feeling spiritually safe within religion. I’ve felt “away from home” with the church of my upbringing. I’ve felt hypocritical and guilty.
I come here every day because at my level, you remind me that it’s about love. Plain and simple.
Thank you.
By R-Liz (Ruthie) on May 4, 2006 | Reply
I echo Hero’s thoughts. You are refreshing in that there is action and compassion behind your words. I stop by your blog with the anticipation of “iron sharpening iron.”
By contratimes on May 5, 2006 | Reply
Yes, the exchange between George and you is heartwarming and humbling. There is truth in both your comments: George, believe it or not, has convicted me. But so have you, Scott. Thanks for this moment.
Peace and mirth,
Gnade
By Scott on May 5, 2006 | Reply
Thanks guy, he’s a decent chap.
I am blessed to work at a congregation that loves to study and go deeper. Ultimately, this study will ask the question, as does the content of this blog, “How can I be more like Jesus?”
That’s why I say that these types of things need to be redeemed from the myopia of a political view. We must approach all things as Jesus would trying to be the Kingdom in a darkened world.
That’s scary, It’s uncertain. It carries a tremendous amount of risk, but isn’t that what following Jesus is all about?
By Nancy on May 5, 2006 | Reply
My husband and I were asked to speak at 4th Avenue Church of Christ in Nashville this Sunday morning about “Engaging the Culture for Christ.” It’ll be interesting for sure. I’ll let you know how it goes, unless any of y’all are in town and will stop by.
By Nancy on May 5, 2006 | Reply
Oh, I don’t mind the “seeker” spirit, but I also feel you’re misguided. the fact that you wanted to go to war because you hated Muslims is very disturbing.
Having a reaction against your original hate is admirable. But it seems like your newfound pacifism just demonstrates a lack of historical understanding.
I think in fact that a LOT of your positions are a reaction against the traditional legalism of the CoC, and in need of more reflection.
Consider that some of the positions of the Church (and the CoC) are correct, but your heart has just been wrong.
That’s what gags me out about the CoC — the “progressives” among you tend to think that being a Christian means you have to be the nicest person in the room.
(and yes, “Gags Me Out” is a theological term.)
By Tracy, Scott's wife on May 5, 2006 | Reply
Nancy,
“it seems like your newfound pacifism just demonstrates a lack of historical understanding.” That’s a pretty bold statement to make Nancy. How do you feel that he is misguided?
“I think in fact that a LOT of your positions are a reaction against the traditional legalism of the CoC, and in need of more reflection.” The problem here is that very little of what Scott has been talking about has anything to do with CoC. His views on loving people and being a part of the world community transcend any denomination and any lens of a church. This is a scarey statement for you to make, because coupled with what you said just before that, it sounds like you are disappointed there is less hate in his heart.
“Consider that some of the positions of the Church (and the CoC) are correct, but your heart has just been wrong. That’s what gags me out about the CoC — the “progressives” among you tend to think that being a Christian means you have to be the nicest person in the room.” What’s wrong with being the nicest person in the room? I can think of a lot of reasons why being the meanest person in the room isn’t so great. And nowhere has Scott said anything about the church or the Church of Christ are incorrect. Rather, he’s said a lot about the GOP and the Religious Right being wrong.
And I’m guessing you’ll disagree with this, but its still true: Christianity is not the same thing as the GOP or certainly the Religious Right.
By scott on May 5, 2006 | Reply
Nancy, I hope all goes well for you and your husband on Sunday. Yes, my hatred was quite disturbing.
Tracy is right. Any reactions I had against legalistic churches of Christ occured years ago. The Church of Christ is my home and my family. I love them dearly warts and all.
My “reaction” has been against my need to qualify the words of Jesus to make them palatable for a 21st century American.
About the kindness thing? Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
I do aspire to be the kindest person in the room. I’m not there yet, but maybe someday I will be.
Ready to sing “Kumbaya?”
By Nancy on May 5, 2006 | Reply
Hello Scott and Tracy!
The fact that Christianity is not the same as the GOP is obvious. Christianity gets better tax write-offs.
I think that good hearted people can disagree about war in general, but I think this war in particular is one that needs to be fought. My husband and I both feel this deeply to our core. In fact, he just joined the Army Reserve JAG corps, as a father of two as a Constitutional litigator. Perhaps it’s a little too close to my heart to discuss over the comments section of a blog. (Especially a blog that ain’t mine! I want the traffic.
I obviously don’t think rudeness should rule, of course. But sometimes, (as in that Georgia Tech case we discussed earlier) “niceness” is NOT the same as “Christianity” . Even Jesus told people that their lips were dripping with the poison of asps. That Jesus must have known that Micah said to “love kindness” you don’t have to overlook the “justice” part.
Anyway, I obviously don’t think you should be the rudest person in the room. I think you should be the rudest person in someone’s comments section.
Kum-ba-yaaaa….
Nancy
By Jon on May 5, 2006 | Reply
Forgive me for intruding, as I’m not a “creeker” — but I have some friends who are who pointed me to this site. I just wanted to reply to your request about ideas for discussions. I applaud your suggestion to confront the topic of homosexuality, as most Christians sweep this one under the rug and refuse to believe that the members among them actually deal with this issue. Or if they are aware of it, they simply quote from Leviticus and suggest that the person(s) contact Exodus or some local counselor.
As someone with some experience on the subject, let me suggest that you go ahead and tackle it head on, with the hearts of certain members (or friends, family, etc.) in mind. Ask people to join you who have personal experience with this orientation, both those who fight it and those who have accepted it. As I mentioned, most Christians refuse to even discuss this topic. But those who do almost always spend the [brief] discussion time only confirming their present beliefs from their heterosexual point of view, instead of exploring new ones.
Questions you may want to ask yourself and others: Is the homosexual’s orientation something he or she was born with, or a product of their environment? Is their orientation changeable? If not, should the church insist that this person remain celibate, alone and lonely? What did Paul have to say about the “gift” of celibacy? How different is this issue in the eyes of God than say, divorce? or interracial marriage? What would answers to those issues have been like 50 years ago in the church? Is there anyone you know who has truly, FULLY been healed of this “affliction?” Do those who have married still struggle with same-sex attraction? Are they truly happy?
I believe these are all important questions, and ones that the church needs to explore. There have been thousands of people of all ages in the church who wrestle with this issue. Most end up leaving the church, because they eventually find no place for them in it. They tire of never finding the healing they’ve been promised: if they’ll just pray enough, dedicate themselves more to God, seek more counseling… Fill in the blank. So the final question becomes, if God never “heals” them, and they don’t possess the gift of celibacy about which Paul speaks, what are they to do?
God’s blessings as you seek the answers,
By Scott on May 5, 2006 | Reply
Nancy, wow. Jason and I keep hitting close to home don’t we. Has your husband screamed in a courtroom “I want the truth?” Just curious.
Jon, thanks for coming by. Those are tremendous questions. I believe that we are at the point where none of us remain untouched by those struggling with the issue of homosexuality and gay rights. How we respond is crucial as we navigate the changes before us. Your questions hit at the heart of the struggle. Thanks.
By Jason Bybee on May 7, 2006 | Reply
Wow. I’ve been out of pocket for a couple days, and you’re suddenly nearing 40 comments. I haven’t read many of these, I’m just posting to drive up the comment tally even more. Looks like there’s plenty here to discuss, though.
By scott on May 8, 2006 | Reply
It’s been crazy. Read through and discuss. Most of it is really good. Still got a couple to go to reach your levels.
By Jason Bybee on May 8, 2006 | Reply
Will do. #40!
By trapp1 on Sep 15, 2006 | Reply
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