What Do You Want In A Church?
May 17th, 2007 | by Scott |I read a lot about the “business” (for lack of a better word) of doing church. Books are churned out regularly, Barna does all his research and we talk a lot about how we do what we have been called to do. In just the last few weeks I have read:
–Simple Church
–Connecting Church
–Transforming Discipleship
–Planting Missional Churches
–Leaving Church
–Comeback Churches (I actually will start this one today or tomorrow)
To be honest, these books drive me nuts. There is a lot of talk about doing church and not enough talk about being the church. It’s easy to get wrapped up in a communal weekly assembly (or assemblies) rather than being the incarnation of Christ in our communities. Which seems to me to be a whole lot more important to Jesus than a corporate service. But I digress.
Rather than me just holding forth on the way things should be, in my mind, or the way things are let me ask you:
What kind of church do you want?
What is important to you? What are the things that you look for?
If you could start from scratch how would you construct church?
I’m looking for the insight of my “churched” readers–both lay and professional.
But I also want the insight of those who don’t attend regularly.
Give me feedback.
20 Responses to “What Do You Want In A Church?”
By Kevin Bussey on May 17, 2007 | Reply
Great question!
God has been rocking my world lately. I’ve been convicted that God wants us to reach our community. Our community is different than every book, conference or friends church model.
We are starting a new ministry of giving back to the people in our community. They won’t come until we meet their needs 1st.
By Scott on May 17, 2007 | Reply
OK, well then what does that look like? Do we simply produce another model that finds its ends in getting them into our buildings and into the baptistery or is there something more personable and lasting?
By KS on May 17, 2007 | Reply
I think I’d like a church where I can just show up on Sunday’s and it makes me feel good about myself. I don’t want to get to deep, and I want the service to be very entertaining. I may give some money to a mission effort so I feel like something I am doing has meaning.
Signed: The American public
By Corey on May 17, 2007 | Reply
The problem with the Church trying to get the community to join them is that the Church expects them to automacticaly come to service. That has not been working and it will never work! Jesus, and the apostles didn’t do it. They all went into the community and then they joined them. We also can’t just do a few things and expect them to follow. We have to keep on praying and working on them and feed their natural needs then we could feed their spirtual needs. The Church has done enough follow up in the community.
I would love a church that we all actually know each other in a personal matter. A church that’s a true family, not the part of your family that you see every now and then. I’m talking about true fellowship. If we just meet at the building on Sunday and Wednesdays we really can’t get intimate. I would enjoy just one formal Sunday worship that’s actually lifting me up in spirit and encouraging me to do God’s work, and another day at some one’s house having Bible study. I would like more than one hour worship, the sermon doesn’t have to be longer, but I like to sing to God more and praise Him. The songs that we sing today are so depressing. There’s no feeling to it. I want my hairs on my arms to raise up and feel that I’m actually singing with joy in my heart. I also would like a church that is intergrated. It would be awesome if a church had whites, blacks, hispanics, asians, and any other race or natioanality because there isn’t any difference between us in Christ. Churches usually do things for the poor but it doesn’t do anything to get them to worship with us.
That is another weakness we need to work on.
I didn’t mean to be long but things kept on coming out.
By Corey on May 17, 2007 | Reply
The first paragraph, last sentence should read, The Church hasn’t done enough follow up in the community.
KS if you go to church to make yourself feel better than how are you going to grow spiritually if you don’t know if what your doing is wrong. We all have weakness that we need to work on. Sometimes we find that weakness during a song, sermon, or class and sometimes we find out how we come overcome the weakness too. Also if you want to be entertained, go to a Christian concert. Or do you mean that you get bored during service and the service needs to pick it up a notch? I feel our service is slow and boring except the sermons. I don’t feel our singing is glorifying God. Maybe if I was in a younger church our songs would be different and be more up beat. What y’all think.
By Belinda on May 17, 2007 | Reply
One thing that I worry about us losing sight of . . . at least in some congregations that I’ve been around lately . . . they seem to forget that we’re there to GLORIFY GOD! It’s not just about us “enjoying” the service. I once attended a congregation where it was decided the focus was going to be on the Lord’s Supper. This is a time for us to really think and commune with God - not something to be rushed through! We’ve gotten where the bread and the wine are given at the same time . . . hurry hurry hurry. I don’t think that’s the way it was designed.
By Fernando on May 17, 2007 | Reply
What to look for in a group of believers that call themselves a church:
1. A united cause from the members to tell people about Jesus, his teachings and his saving grace without prejudice or condemnation.
2. A group that identifies legitimate community needs and positions themselves accordingly to meet those needs.
3. A group that assembles but also integrates into the community. Believers that are comfortable together on their meeting schedules but also still attends the sabbath services of other beliefs.
4. A group that will sit in prayer over the health of someone they have never met.
5. A group that disdains the “infrastructure” and will put those assets into what has been mentioned above. Not a group that says if we don’t have magnificent facilities we cannot attract souls.
6. A group that provides a food bank and daily meals to the hungry.
7. A group that develops financial resources to meet the health care needs of children and their families.
I can go on and on…but for me organized religion is way too much like another reply I read here….something to the tune that he goes to church to feel better. How sad…
I look for a group that can abandon religious politics and embrace a faith.
I look for a group that can succeed and reach for those who are failing.
And this is why I am so blessed to be a part of the group of beleivers I now worship with…
By Jeff_R on May 17, 2007 | Reply
I don’t want a church at all - at least, not at all like I understand the term.
I want to be a part of relationships that are deeply committed, honest, transparent, transformative and authentic. I want to be in daily contact with those relationships - sharing, caring, supporting, serving, helping. I want to be challenged by the relationships to live on a deeper level - to become better than I am or even think I can be - to be confronted to get over myself and try to find the center of what it means to be human. I want the relationships to have a kind of simultaneous ritual and pattern alongside spontaneity and surprise.
I want to have a relationship with one or more folks who have tread the path before me as a man, a father, a husband, a son, a friend. I want to have a relationship with one or more folks who are “where I am” where we can encourage each other. I want to have a relationship with one or more folks who need my help and advice (however meager that might be).
If I need a larger group in which to find those relationships, that’s fine. Put a sign out front that says “gather here if you’re trying to figure things out and would rather not try it alone”. You can call it what you want, run how you want it, give each other any of the titles you want. It really won’t matter much to me as long as you let me get to the folks I need to be with to live and grow.
It seems we mostly, these days, want to “build a church” then “find a way to get people to come”. When, it seems to me, that what we ought to be doing is trying to find the way to live as real people - which can only happen in the context of relationships with people and can only progress with a mutual agreement to try to go deeper. If a group turns into a gathering and a gathering into a movement, that’s not in my control (though many will try, many will try) and is, in fact, only possible if I refuse to control it.
By Scott on May 17, 2007 | Reply
Great thoughts all the way around. I have a great affinity for the communal gatherings but I’ve grown somewhat weary with the vision statements and core values and mission statement stuff.
It seems that the early church wasn’t quite as concerned with a structure but more concerned with the sustenance of daily living together.
So, I’m wondering, can the stuff that Jeff, and to an extent Fernando, touting be implemented within the confines of our 21st century western notion of church? Can I do that and still be paid?
By greg on May 17, 2007 | Reply
I think we’ve become too dependent on the “organized church” and the formal “worship service” (which I suspect barely resembles anything from the early church) to the point where they define our existence, as opposed to the developing of those relationships Jeff is speaking of, which is far more important.
And I believe such things are being implemented in the 21st century church, but, as you hinted at, it doesn’t really resemble what we’ve always known as “church.” There are places where this is happening, but it’s far from “mainstream”. It’s usually considered pretty radical, when it may very well be (at least in some ways) closer to what we read about in the NT than what is the norm, particularly in this country.
By Jonathan on May 17, 2007 | Reply
Corey,
KS’s statements were made in a facetious tone…indicating what he perceives others are (shallowly) looking for in church. Thus, the signature “the American public”
By KS on May 18, 2007 | Reply
Jonathan: Thanks. Hoping the sarcasm would be caught.
I think one of the main things a church ought to provide is a community for all to belong in. A church where people want to work together as a family. Not sure how to accomplish this, but some churches have accomplished it with relative ease, while some never gain it.
By Jeff_R on May 18, 2007 | Reply
Scott -
My answer to your question is “I don’t know”. I do need that nexus of similar seekers in which to find those vital relationships. I certainly gain from the teaching and relationships with professional ministers - so many “serious seekers” end up in that vocation - so that many of my “crucial relationships” are with those vocational ministers/preachers.
But I also see the inherent problem in propping up this structure - not so much a problem for the “audience”, but a problem for the professional ministers - difficulty in finding authentic relationships, difficulty in being completely honest about their perspectives and beliefs, being drawn into being a manager or coordinator rather than a teacher, etc.
Then there’s the whole problem of how the institutional church - and religion in general - tends to create the idea that the purpose of the laity is to prop up the institution rather than adhere to the ultimate ends.
[I think there are more problematic questions, too, in the idea of evangelism. It's difficult to broach the subject since modern ideas of evangelism all are based at least in part on the idea of psychological manipulation and coercion. This is further complicated by the questions of whether we can really even, by act of intellectual will, change our beliefs.]
By Phil Wilson on May 18, 2007 | Reply
I think that the biggest thing I need is the ability to live without a mask. I generally wear my heart on my sleeve. If I’m having a bad week or time in my life, I’m going to tell people I’m having a bad week or time in my life. I need a place that walks with me through that and walks with me on the other side.
I need a place that calls me to the carpet where my life doesn’t match up with a follower of Christ in the 21st Century and encourages me where it does. I need a place where I can know others and be known.
And I’m speaking from a personal aspect here, but I would also hope for a place where others are seeking the same thing and our times together reflect that.
By Scott on May 18, 2007 | Reply
As I dig deeper into these questions it’s hard not to approach all of this as a “what does this mean for me” rather than a “what does this mean for the Kingdom?”
It is difficult, as the “evangelist”, to really dig into these issues. When I talk about not having ministry friends people misunderstand and think that I don’t have friends in my church.
But I think I see a great need for the decentralization and an inversion. The church is far too Western for it’s own good.
And I want to talk about evangelism soon as well. It’s a fine line between being “intentional” and being invasive and opportunistic, IMO.
By Jon on May 18, 2007 | Reply
On the first day of a new church someone should have everyone close their eyes and then ask the questions…
If you have ever messed up as a father/mother. Please stand up.
If you have ever messed up in your marriage. Please stand up.
If you have ever messed up in life. Please stand up.
Then have everyone open their eyes to see that everyone is in the same boat. We all like to quote Romans 3:23, but somehow we lose sight of the absolute truth in that verse.
By JTB on May 18, 2007 | Reply
By JTB on May 18, 2007 | Reply
Bummer! Why didn’t that work? Trying again.
By JTB on May 18, 2007 | Reply
OKay, I give up.
http://www.christschurchforbrooklyn.org/
By tmp on May 22, 2007 | Reply
A word on reaching the unchurched, which hopefully is our mission… if those in our community who are not and maybe have never been “church people” are looking for a place to feel good, I hope it’s our church family that can provide that for them. Initially these folks may be seeking a temporary “fix” of feel-good, but hopefully in our midst they’ll find deep, lasting, and rewarding “feel good” that goes way below the surface and connects them with God and His believers. If that takes providing an environment that is welcoming and “fun” to the unchurched to walk thru the doors for the first time, I’m all for it!