Things I Love About Ponca City: No Ties
October 9th, 2007 | by Scott |I plan to make this a semi-regular feature of my blog: things about my new town and church family that I love. And what better way to start with the fact that I don’t have to wear a tie when I preach.
I hate ties. I hate them in all their permutations. The greatest evidence of the dupe-ability of the human race is the PR guy who was able to convince people that this is a good idea despite the fact that it is akin to auto-asphyxiation.
Seriously, the most wide-spread form of torture today is a neck-tie. You should only wear a tie if you are going to a funeral, if you are getting married or you have been invited to the Hilary Clinton Inaugural Ball.
When I interviewed at Agape the elders told me not to mess with wearing a tie on Sunday morning. I was already in town, it was late on Saturday night and I didn’t have anything but a shirt and tie. I was only too happy to make a late night stop at Wal-Mart and buy a shirt.
I hate ties. Just hate them. I believe they are perpetuated because it is the closest thing that men can experience that relates to the female pain of childbirth.
When I was in Michigan I didn’t wear them preaching. In Waco, I had to despite the great risk of a tie being wrapped around the mike stand while preaching.
No more. Death to ties. I love that about my new church families.
36 Responses to “Things I Love About Ponca City: No Ties”
By bill on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
I think you misunderstood Scott we said “no Tai” as in Mai Tai. Just kidding we are excited to have you tieless in PC.
By John on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
I’m with you on the ties and that’s one thing that I like with my church. It’s informal like that and it’s about the message and not the fashion.
By That Girl on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
I understand because I absolutely hate pantyhose and I have to wear them everyday at work but… some of us girls think guys in charcoal gray pants, white shirt and red tie are HOT!
By Greg England on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
Isn’t going to a funeral and attending the Hillary Clinton Inaugural Ball basically the same thing?
By Doug Freeman on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
Scott, there is another side to the casual dress at church. Ties have been a major portion of my life and I still enjoy wearing them. On the other hand, some of the casual dress seen at church has gone to the extreme. I don’t think gym shorts, ragged tee shirts, sweat pants, shower slippers and the like can ever be mode of dress that respects God. I am in favor of approiate dress on most occassions for church worship. I don’t always wear ties but, i don’t and won’t wear some of the things I see in today’s society, especially the Britney attire. Its much better IMHO also for those who have Donlops Disease to wear a coat.
By Donna on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
Terri- ministers should not be concerned with whether or not you think they are hot!!
I would always vote for tieless…and pantyhose less…
By Justin on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
I love ties… not the feeling of wearing them so much as how awesome they look.
By Jeff Slater on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
Scott - where did you preach in Michigan?
I Hate ties (and dressing up for church). I am, ever so slowly, doing away with ties. Pretty soon, I will be dressing casual every week and no will notice the difference.
Greg — Good one!
By jasonk on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
Briscoe Darling, patriarch of the Darling family from the Andy Griffith Show, said of ties, “ever since I saw a man hung, I’ve been nervous about wearing one of these.”
I asked a group of women to whom I was speaking who invented the tie, and they responded, “the same person that invented panty hose.”
By Jonathan on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
Doug,
I can understand that certain types of modest dress might be considered effectively inappropriate because culture/tradition deems them to be so…but fundamentally (intrinsically, not culturally) what’s the Biblical basis for this statement?
By Greg Brooks on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
Wearing a tie is like childbirth?
I don’t get what my wife was complaining about…
By Scott on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
Bill, I had first thought you said “No Thai.” Which is cool with me.
John, I think that is a major key to being a welcoming group of people.
Terri, pleats or no? Button down collar? Stripes or solid? See it’s just too hard for a sartorially challenged guy like me.
Greg, I thought all you Californians were voting for Hilary
By Scott on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
Dad, I am really glad you won’t be wearing the Britney attire. I have to say that I agree with Jonathan. We see evidence of a God who doesn’t judge on externals but on the heart. I had to wear a tie, not out of holiness, but because a couple of older members complained. I complied but there is no biblical basis that doing so was more reverent.
Donna, I don’t get pantyhose either.
Justin, uh…
Jeff, I was in Port Huron. Tremendous church. Wonderful people.
By Scott on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
JasonK, right on. It is the only universally accepted form of torture today.
Jonathan, again I agree. It doesn’t move beyond the cultural in my mind.
Greg, it is. Do your research.
By terri on Oct 9, 2007 | Reply
No pleats, no button down, french cuffs, 100% pinpoint white cotton…. solid shirt and a striped red tie…
ahhhh
By Doug Freeman on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Scott, I am not saying God does not look at the heart. I am saying that the way some people dress for church worship is not showing respect for God. If they can dress up nicely for work then why wear gym shorts to church. I am embarrassed to see how some dress now to even serve communion. They didn’t use to dress that way. I think it is a disgrace no matter what you guys think.
By Jonathan on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Doug,
People may “dress up nicely for work” because their employers expect/require them to do so or because it is the norm for that culture. If their employer does not require it or if their job is best performed when not dressed up nicely, they may not dress up.
It seems that you believe that the church member’s authority figure (God) expects/requires/desires church attendees to “dress up nicely.” I am asking you to provide the Biblical basis for this belief.
Also, I would argue that the “job” of a church attendee is actually best performed when not “dressed up.” I think the stiff, formal, stuffy environment can put up walls that really need to be broken down. And I think it can be difficult to minister to, welcome, and make the poor feel like they fit in with a parking lot full of “nice” cars and everyone dressed up so “nicely.”
Again, I’m not claiming that no one ever dresses immodestly at church or that it isn’t ever wise to dress in a way that conforms to cultural expectations (as Scott did with his ties), but I question whether “dressing up nicely” is intrinsically a virtue.
By greg on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
saw on Letterman’s “Small Town News” last night, an entry from the PC newspaper.
By greg on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
jonathan, well said.
By len on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
I wear a tie on Sunday morning’s only. The church I pastor does not require me to wear one. More men in my church will be wearing jeans than a tie.
I am seeing what I think is an interesting, and sad, trend of “reverse judgmentalism”. There is a certain mindset that believes that if someone does dress up for worship services that they must only care about what other people think. Judging someone based on appearance is wrong whether they are wearing jeans and a t-shirt or a suit and tie. Some churches advertise something to this extent: “come here dressed however you want, we won’t judge you”. Does that apply only to the shorts and flip-flops crowd or is someone welcome if they choose to wear a tie?
By Scott on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Len, I would say that is a great danger. I was visiting with one church this summer that was pretty casual. One of the members related a story to me about showing up at a church and being the only person there in a tie. From that point forward he decided he would always wear a tie to church so that a potential visitor would always be able to see someone else wearing one. That’s cool. I really don’t care how people decide to dress, just as long as I don’t have to wear a tie
But I have been thinking a lot about this. I have been offended in the past about the way people dress to “church.” However, in some cultures and locations, shorts and flip-flops would not only be acceptable but expected. So, the question is: is our dress in worship services potentially disrespectful of God or disrespectful to the congregants?
By len on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Scott, if you think wearing a tie is the closest thing to childbirth then you have never experienced a kidney stone. I’d wear a tie every day for the rest of my life to avoid kidney stones.
By matt elliott on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Scott, I promise I will always judge you if I see you wearing a tie. It’s the least I can do.
By Scott on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Len, a kidney stone while wearing a tie is more than I can fathom.
Matt, THAT is brotherly love.
By Doug Freeman on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Scott, what was accomplished with this post other than the fact I got some folks riled up?
By Scott on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
I don’t see anybody riled up. It comes across to me as a good discussion that spans generational lines. We need more of that.
By Jonathan on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Doug,
This is a subject that I’ve been thinking about off and on for a decade or more, so your strong statement
prompted me out of my normal lurker status to try to engage in a discussion.
I don’t think I’ve ever worn gym shorts or shower slippers to church, but I do routinely wear crocs. I wonder if I can be respectful of God in those. And last Sunday I wore “nice” shorts to celebrate that it was still in the 80s in Michigan in October (as of today, the warm weather is gone!).
Scott was right. I wasn’t feeling riled. I still don’t. Right now I feel ignored.
By Kayte on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Wow, Scott! Can’t wait to read what you love about Ponca next! Drinking coffee in during bible class or worship???
By Scott on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Jonathan, Crocs are so 2006.
Kayte, I hate coffee. Now, if it was Diet Coke
By Doug Freeman on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Jonathan, I am not ignoring you. I just seem to have a problem of expressing what i see as a problem with casual dress. I have been in church for over sixty years. Next month I will be eighty years old. My original comment was that I feel casual dress has gone to the extreme here in our area. I personally have a problem with the way some have started to dress. I am not judging their heart, just their motive. When you see a young lady get out of her car and have to tug at her shorts to get them below her cheeks is not approiate wear.I suppose this and the other modes of dress are ok with others but,I know they have more decent apparel. The othe other items I mentioned have just started to be commonplace in recent months and I don’t see the reason for such a change. All this started because Scott does not want to wear a tie. That is what he will get for Christmas. I apologize for my rants.
By len on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Doug,
there is a difference between casual dress and immodest dress. The lady you are describing is not being casual, she is being immodest. That has no place in the Christian’s life, but is far too prevalent today.
Scott, I like what you brought up in your post about being respectful to God and to others. I am responsible for not being a hindrance to others in worship. We shouldn’t allow others to dictate everything we do, but we should keep in mind that what we do impacts others.
By Robin on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Leviticus 19:30 “Observe my Sabbaths and have reverence for my sanctuary. I am the Lord.” Does this apply to how to dress in the Lord’s house?
By Jonathan on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Doug,
That’s a great idea! All of us SF groupies, put a reminder on your calendar to get Scott a tie for Christmas and mail it to him. Imagine how loved he will feel in Ponca City in December when he gets 20 or 30 packages in the mail!
Robin,
I would argue no.
First of all, I think that verse is in reference to a sacred/holy place in the temple. There is no analogous physical place for the Christian, in my opinion. The “church building” is a building that has no more intrinsic holiness than any other building or place where Christians might fellowship and worship God.
Secondly, the principle of showing reverence to God still holds…but my point is that “nice clothes” are not more reverent than other modest clothes.
By Scott on Oct 10, 2007 | Reply
Len, you beat me to the punch. I agree that immodesty is a different issue altogether than whether or not a tie or fancy dress is the standard. If biblical examples of dress in worship is brought in do we consider sackcloth? What about a linen ephod (David) or just plain nudity (Jeremiah)?
My only point is that I was happy to not have to wear a tie
By Jonathan on Oct 11, 2007 | Reply
but will they let you wear your sandals with white socks?
By Scott on Oct 11, 2007 | Reply
Jonathan, yes. But Tracy won’t.