Santa?

November 25th, 2007 | by Scott |

Yea or Nay?

  1. 40 Responses to “Santa?”

  2. By Happy on Nov 25, 2007 | Reply

    Nay

  3. By Happy on Nov 25, 2007 | Reply

    I guess we should come up with something maybe a Fair Trade Fairy

  4. By Scott on Nov 25, 2007 | Reply

    Now, there is an idea.

    So, did you not do the Santa Myth with your children?

  5. By Kevin Bussey on Nov 25, 2007 | Reply

    Yea,

    Do you think I’m voting against him? I sure don’t want to be on his bad list. :)

  6. By Jason Bybee on Nov 25, 2007 | Reply

    With 3 kids, definitely Yea.

  7. By R-Liz on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    I don’t know.

    I find this time of year to be very confusing. Is it about the tree or about Santa or about giving and getting or about the birth of Jesus? Too many motifs that I don’t find compatible.

    I might be able to get away with one more Christmas without Santa, but next year the kids will be old enough to force a decision.

    So, please, I’d love to hear more opinions…

  8. By Greg Brooks on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    Yesterday there was no children’s church during the service we attend. We didn’t know this beforehand so we didn’t bring any activities for our 6 and 3 year old boys. All we had in the van were newspaper inserts from Black Friday, so my wife grabbed the JCPenney Toys catalog. I sat through the sermon with my 3 year old on my lap listening to him whisper, “I want that…I want that” as he flipped the pages and pointed.

    IN CHURCH.

    DURING A SERMON ABOUT GIVING.

    Anyway, yes we do Santa. He is a saint, after all. We’re all ‘ancient/future’ at my house. :P

  9. By Robin on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    I have two adult children and of course we enjoyed the tradition of Santa. Santa embodies the spirit of giving. Santa is all knowing, watching, judging, benevolent giver - sound familiar? Belief in Santa did not detract from the celebration of the birth of Christ which we celebrated at home and at church. Does your church, COC, celebrate Christmas?

  10. By Adam on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    I think by not letting you’re kids do the Santa thing is a sad. It should be a right of passage for every child. I don’t think any child will be worse off for believing in Santa.

  11. By Scott on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    I grew up believing in Santa. It didn’t cause me any undue harm.
    However, some believe that teaching your children that Santa is real is lying to them. And it is. I can’t find a loophole around that.
    But is it a justifiable lie? Problem is, I don’t believe there is such a thing.

    Some believe that if kids find out that Santa has been a lie all their life then they will then think Jesus was just a lie as well. I understand that as well but I don’t believe that it is a necessary progression.

    I’m leaning toward emphasizing to my children that this is a legend. Nothing more.
    Besides, I don’t want some dude getting the credit for me spending my hard earned money :D

    Any thoughts on this?

  12. By The Other Jonathan on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    In our house (kids aged 10, 6, and 4), we treat Santa as a fictional character, just like Mickey Mouse or Clifford the Big Red Dog. We don’t go out of our way to tell our kids that Clifford is not real, but we sure don’t tell them that he is, either. We don’t have any family traditions that involve Santa (for example, letter-writing), but we aren’t hard-core debunkers.

  13. By Scott on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    Jonathan, I think that is my preferred approach. If my oldest asks we tell her it is the legend of Santa.

  14. By John on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    Yea, but with constant reminders to the little one about what the season is really about. Still it’s fun and something that you can’t deny to the kids.

  15. By Doug Freeman on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    I do not know of anyone whose mind has been warped by believing in Santa. We had 5 kids who believed ( I suppose ) in Santa until they were old enough to know different. I think kids soon learn at an early age that Santa in not real. I know none of my kids ( including Scott ) ever turning down gifts because they knew where the gifts came from. Kids live in a make believe world. Why deny them? I can’t see that as being a lie.

  16. By Tracy on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    I’m really surprised to see you blog about this. Ya’ll, this issue almost made us not get married and has been an ongoing discussion since. I’ll fess up. I’m the one who doesn’t want to tell the kids that Santa is real.

    He’s not. He’s a lovely story and a fun game, but not real. I don’t want this fictional man getting any credit for the season or any room on the table as a ‘reason for the season’.

    Up until this Christmas, we’ve been able to skirt the issue and it hasn’t come to ‘mom, is santa real or not?’. Thank goodness! Because until Scott and I can come to an agreement on the issue, its avoided.

    I was never told that Santa was real as a kid. Sure, we got our pictures made with Santa and every year a highlight of the Christmas season is getting the kids’ pictures made with Santa. But why do the gifts come from him? Why does he have to sneak in our house?

    After weighing the pros and cons; to me I just don’t think its worth it.

  17. By The Other Jonathan on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    Santa:
    * He arrives at Christmas
    * You can’t see him
    * You can ask him for things
    * Sometimes you get what you ask for, sometimes you don’t
    * He likes kids
    * He cares about your actions
    * Your parents say he is real
    * Turns out, he’s not real

    Jesus:
    * He arrives at Christmas
    * You can’t see him
    * You can ask him for things
    * Sometimes you get what you ask for, sometimes you don’t
    * He likes kids
    * He cares about your actions
    * Your parents say he is real
    * Turns out, he’s… ?

    Now, do I know for sure that’s a problem? No, not from personal experience. However, I’d prefer not to go there.

  18. By Doug Freeman on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    I cannot see taking away something that the kids look forward to. Might as well do away with the tooth fairy, easter bunny and all the other things that are a part of a child’s world. It just does not make sense to me.

  19. By Scott on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    Tracy, I wasn’t going to out you. :D

    I think it boils down to an issue of comfort. Again, I grew up with Santa and am, relatively, normal. I don’t know of anybody who lost their faith in Jesus when discovering that Santa wasn’t real.

    However, I am sensitive to the fear that people have. Faith can be a very tenuous thing for some people. As one who has been prone to doubt in his life I do understand that.

    Yet, I think my dad’s point is well-taken. A child’s life is full of make-believe. The distinction is in this case that often times when it comes to Santa the make-believe is encouraged to become reality until they reach the age that they no longer can logically believe it.

    Ultimately, where I come down on the issue is that if it makes my wife uncomfortable then by no means can I insist that it become a tradition in our home. That would be patriarchal and dismissive of her legitimate concerns. Nor can I ask her to teach something, either directly or indirectly, that she feels might harm our children later.

    It was a tradition in my family and I love and appreciate that. It was a very important part of my life growing up. However, looking back it was not Santa Claus that made those things special. In looking back, it was family. Of my mom and dad fighting sleep to wait until we finally nodded off to set up the toys and other gifts that they had gotten us. Everything else is secondary.

  20. By The Other Jonathan on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    I’m not sure what my kids would be looking forward to that I would be taking away from them by not claiming that Santa is real. We don’t do (and never have done) the “photos with Santa” bit or the “mail a wishlist to Santa” bit. I’m not taking anything away from my kids, since they never had it in the first place.

    Trust me, my kids are all geeked about Christmas even without those things. And I have no explaining to do about why the mall Santa has a fake beard, or whatever.

    And as far as the Easter Bunny goes, my kids will believe in that monstrosity over my dead body. :)

  21. By Phil Wilson on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    I did some thinking about this last year…

    Santa Claus Is Not God

    We do Santa, but we have to be very clear about the giving nature and not just getting, getting, getting.

    I find that belief in Santa encourages the acceptance of the supernatural and/or imagination. Plus, it really reveals the child like faith that children have.

    Until my kids ask me straight out, I will let them believe that Santa is real, especially because I have such fond memories of believing in Santa. I remember one Christmas Eve looking up into the sky and seeing a red light crossing it and truly believing that it was Rudolph. Now, I assume that it was a plane and not Rudolph, but for that moment, I believed with all my heart and I treasure that memory as a significant piece of my childhood and hope that my kids will have touchstones like that as well.

  22. By Scott on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    Phil, I think that is the heart of the dilemma. Chloe is at the age where she is asking straight out “Is Santa real?”

  23. By Phil Wilson on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    At that point, I think I’ll take my daughter aside and let her know that Santa is real, but he’s not a real person. He’s a character that helps us realize the spirit of giving at Christmas. And that it’s important that she help us help our son believe in him too, because it’s very special to believe so strongly in that.

    I think we’re a couple of years away from that. At least, I hope so.

  24. By greg on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    My understanding is that there is some truth behind the Saint Nicholas story, so in that sense he is (or was) real. But, to say the Santa that lives at the North Pole, has flying reindeer, etc. is real is farther than I will go when my kids ask. I’ll probably explain how it originated and why we allowed them to believe. Like Scott, I believed, and I’m relatively normal (despite what people say.)

    Seen online a while back:

    First, I believed in Santa Claus. Then, I didn’t believe in Santa Claus. Now, I am Santa Claus.

  25. By Greg on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    I’m surprised there’s this much discussion. I have nothing to add; I’m just trying to boost my comment stats. Top 10, here I come!

  26. By Jeff Slater on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    Count me as a huge YES!!! on the whole Santa thing.

    Greg said: “First, I believed in Santa Claus. Then, I didn’t believe in Santa Claus. Now, I am Santa Claus.”

    Right on! There you go — it is not a lie!

    Actually, my wife had a great way of handling the question “Is Santa real?” She would say, “What do you think?” They always answered in the affirmative because they wanted to believe.

    One potential problem with telling your kids that Santa is not real, is that they will tell other kids (and ruin it for them). Kids don’t always understand things like tact, so they will blurt out “Oh, Santa’s not real. My mom and dad told me.”

    If some little kid had done that to one of my kiddos, I would have been tempted to give that kid (or his/her parents) an atomic wedgie!

  27. By Scott on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    Thanks for the discussion. This has been most helpful, to me at least.

  28. By Cindy on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    Imagination is a wonderful part of childhood. I see no problem in encouraging a child to imagine a wonderfully, magical person who loves children. I never felt I was lying to my children because the spirit of Santa Claus is real. You need to go find a copy of “Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus”

  29. By Jonathan on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    Robin,

    There’s no definitive answer to the question of “does the coC celebrate Christmas?” because there is a significant diversity in practice between different congregations, especially these days. That said, I would say that the traditional/standard coC view in the past was to allow the celebraation of the secular aspects of Christmas (Santa Claus, etc.) but not the religious aspects (birth of Jesus). The logic was that a special once-a-year celebration of Jesus’ birth is not authorized in the New Testament by “command, example, or necessary inference” and, therefore, it isn’t desired by God. I don’t agree for many reasons, but that was probably the most common view in the past.

  30. By Scott on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    Yeah, I’ve read “Yes, Virginia…” It’s quaint. And, again, I’m not saying it’s wrong. But I do appreciate the tension it creates in some people. It’s obviously a sensitive issue for people and I don’t necessarily think it’s lying either. But we have to listen to what others who have a problem with it.

    Personally, I agree with Phil the most. But if Chloe straight out asks me “Is Santa real?” I’m going to have a very hard time just saying yes.

  31. By Amy on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    I don’t know if my kids are just uber-realists or what, but Santa just hasn’t been that big of a deal around here.

    I remember when Rachel, our oldest, was in kindergarten. I got a phone call from her friend’s mom saying her daughter Morgan (Rachel’s friend) was upset. Morgan told her mom that Rachel didn’t believe in Santa, so Morgan thought Rachel wasn’t going to get any gifts - that Santa only came to kids who believe.

    We really don’t talk about Santa, but he does come and leave gifts (still). Rachel’s never refused those! He’s just a non-issue. The girls don’t ask and we don’t tell. Maybe we’re just too busy!

    When they have asked in the past I remember just saying “What do you think?” And if they say it’s Dad, we say “you think Dad flies all around the world every Christmas Eve?” And it just gets sillier and sillier from there.

    I do love the fact that the one decoration our youngest was looking forward to pulling out is our advent wreath for the table. And the big sparkly white candle that goes in the middle which represents Jesus being born.

  32. By Jonathan on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    This is something that we have thought about and been concerned about.

    We still play Santa, answer queries vaguely or with “what do you think?” etc. but it reminds me of the difficulty in teaching a child the difference between “kidding” (as in eventually adding the modifier “just kidding” to something I said) and lying (as in practicing deception). This is a distinction that can be non-obvious to a child. We understand that we’re just kidding our kids about Santa. Once they’re mature, they will understand the same. At some point in between, there may be a time when they don’t understand…and the concern is that there could be a negative consequence on some level.

    The concern is not so much that the realization that my parents “lied to me about Santa Claus” would have a major conscious impact on faith (i.e., maybe they lied to me about God too)…it’s more that, maybe, there is a danger that it might have a subconscious negative effect along with whatever other significant factors and influences and randomness that contribute to faith not being successfully transmitted from parent to child in some circumstances and individuals versus other circumstances and individuals.

    I don’t worry about it too much, but like Scott I definitely won’t answer a direct question with a direct, emphatic answer that yes he is real.

    You’d think an academic would have studied this and determined whether or not there is a statistically significant difference in adult faith between children from religious families who were visited by Santa Claus and those who were not.

  33. By Scott on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    As I said earlier I don’t believe that finding out that Santa is not real leads to a subsequent doubt of God. I think it underestimates our kids and tries to protect them from necessary doubt and questioning.

    I guess the better question in all of this is how do we synthesize the two traditions: me who grew up with Santa and Tracy who didn’t.

  34. By matt elliott on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    Man, I’m sorry I’ve been out of pocket and missed this whole discussion. We do Santa as Jonathan described — as a fictional character. Our kids (who are 9, 7, and almost 4) got their picture with The Fat Bearded One at the mall just tonight, but not a single one of them believes the Santa story as the God’s-honest truth. (Spend five minutes with them and you’ll find that their imaginations are still alive and well, thanks.)

    I’m glad we did it this way for one primary reason. Our oldest son has Asperger’s Syndrome (a high-functioning disorder on the Autism Spectrum), and he takes EVERYTHING quite literally. As a result, telling him the truth about everything is uber-important — much moreso than with a “typical” child. Making distinctions between legend and truth can be difficult for him, so it’s been a good thing for our little family.

    Frankly, we likely could’ve gone whole-hog on the Santa thing with the two younger ones, and it wouldn’t have been any big deal at all. But I truly believe it would’ve been a disaster of monumental proportions for my oldest.

    All that to say this — if you’re a parent, you know your kids better than anyone else does. Just carefully, thoughtfully, and prayerfully consider each one and make your decision based on what you know about them. It’ll vary from family to family, and perhaps from kid to kid.

    It’s all good.

  35. By Sunny on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    We do Santa at our house, but Abby Kate can’t stand the man for the third year in a row!

    I never really thought about Santa getting all of the credit in your child’s eyes. Makes me think a little bit more about the subject…

    I did get some great tips on how to handle the questions when the come in a few years.

  36. By Scott on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    Matt, thanks for that pespective. That helps tremendously.

    Sunny, my reluctance for Santa to get the credit is due to my own selfishness :D

  37. By Justin on Nov 26, 2007 | Reply

    I was always confused about how Santa had some sort of deal with Toys R Us where you could exchange broken toys. We had a “broken” Christmas, I guess when I was 6 or so, when nearly all of our toys arrived broken, and we made several trips to stores to exchange them for ones that weren’t.

    Carrie and I don’t have kids yet (praise god cause we have no money and the world is about to end) but when we do (if the world goes on and we aren’t scavenging for food and burning worthless piles of dollar bills for heat) I will google this conversation while we discuss.

  38. By Gayla on Nov 27, 2007 | Reply

    Okay, I’ll put my two cents worth in. We’ve always talked about Santa with our three kids, but only in the sense of “what do you want from Santa”, etc., but we didn’t build it up to the point that a bell was left behind that fell off Santa’s sleigh or make a big deal out of it.

    Strangely enough, my middle child is the one who has always questioned the Santa thing and knows the truth while his older brother is still a believer (the oldest brother says “you don’t think our parents buy all that stuff, do you”). When your child comes out and asks, I don’t think you should lie to them because that’s never a good idea. When we talked to our middle child about it one of the things we told him was that it’s always good to do something for somebody where you don’t get credit for it and Santa is one way mom and dad buy things without getting the credit. We also told him as long as you believe - Santa still brings you presents. He knows they are from us, but it’s fun. We’ve probably warped him for life, but that’s part of raising kids.

    To end it all, I don’t know anybody (but I’m sure there is someone out there) who has life-long devestating effects about finding out there isn’t a Santa or who has concluded that if Santa is a myth then Jesus must be a myth. I think that’s overthinking it a bit. But then, as parents, that’s something else we all tend to do at different times about different issues.

  39. By Jason Bybee on Nov 27, 2007 | Reply

    I’m with Scott. No way Santa should get credit for all the coin I gotta shell out.

  40. By matt elliott on Nov 27, 2007 | Reply

    I can’t argue with that, Gayla. While I *do* actually know a couple of people who profess that they lost their faith as a result of the Santa myth, I would contend that Santa was merely part of a much larger toxic family of origin cocktail! 8-)

  41. By Scott on Nov 28, 2007 | Reply

    “a much larger toxic family of origin cocktail!”

    Now there is a discussion thread.

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